Discussing Call-out culture

[jesse_the_k]

liv recently hosted a thoughtful discussion on “Bullying for Social Justice”

https://liv.dreamwidth.org/539260.html

“Call-out culture,” like “political correctness,” sounds neutral while carrying conflicting ideological meaning.

Laurie Penny addresses some of these issues in "Who Does She Think She Is: The internet does not hate women. People hate women, and the internet allows them to do it faster, harder, and with impunity."

https://longreads.com/2018/03/28/who-does-she-think-she-is

It took me many years to learn the most important distinguishing factor when trying to decide what criticism to take on board, once you’ve filtered and blocked for bots and fascists. It’s not about tone, and it’s not, for fuck’s sake, about Twitter. It’s about pleasure. Is somebody actively enjoying making you feel like shit? Is driving conscientious people to mental breakdown a really good time for them? Are they getting off on your pain? There’s a word for that, and it’s not “ally.” I understand that bullying can feel pretty damn good, especially if you don’t call it that. I understand that playing the game of trashing feels comfortable and comprehensible, even righteous, when so little else does. But I’ve read all the theory and staggered through all the flame wars and I’ve come to the conclusion that when you get down to it, people who enjoy hurting other people are not worth your time or mine. They can take that kink to a club where it belongs.

When I was young and energetic, we discussed this in the context of Jo Freeman’s 1976 article about “TRASHING: The Dark Side of Sisterhood”

What is “trashing,” this colloquial term that expresses so much, yet explains so little? It is not disagreement; it is not conflict; it is not opposition. These are perfectly ordinary phenomena which, when engaged in mutually, honestly, and not excessively, are necessary to keep an organism or organization healthy and active. Trashing is a particularly vicious form of character assassination which amounts to psychological rape. It is manipulative, dishonest, and excessive. It is occasionally disguised by the rhetoric of honest conflict, or covered up by denying that any disapproval exists at all. But it is not done to expose disagreements or resolve differences. It is done to disparage and destroy.

And yet I still got involved in a Maoist communist group, than whom there are no more expert trashers. I wish I had a handy moral to this story.

Can you point me to works where people went from trashing to actual discussion, listening and responding to what people actually say.

Comments

[oursin]

Alas, I can't. But I can wonder whether Joanna Russ on Power and Helplessness in the Women's Movement was describing a dynamic that is, perhaps, still relevant. Depressing though that thought is.

Though, thinking of Russ, I have been cheered this week at the news that Suppressing Women's Writing is, finally, back in print!

[owlectomy]

Yes - I first read "Magic Mommas, Trembling Sisters, Puritans and Perverts" a couple of years ago, and so much of it made me think "Holy crap, that's exactly the same thing that happened wrt such-and-such Tumblr flamewar!"

[jesse_the_k]

Oh, thanks so much for that link. As always, Russ' rhetoric is even better than I remember.

Women are supposed to make other people feel good, to fill others’ needs without having any of our own-this is the great Feminine Imperative. Such self-suppression amounts to the death of the self. Why demand such an impossibility?
[...snip...]
I believe that trashing, far from being the result of simple envy, arises from a profound ambivalence towards power. The intensity of feeling, the violent inculcation of guilt, the extreme contrast of omnipotence and powerlessness, the lack of substantive complaint, the anger, the absolute lack of impersonality or a sense of public activity, the utter demandingness--all these echo a mother-daughter relationship in which the terrible, hidden truth is not that our mothers are strong, but that they are very weak. The complaint, “You are so strong and I am so helpless” hides the far worse one, “I am strong enough that my strength will get me into terrible trouble, and you are too weak to protect me if that happens.”

[luzula]

Can you point me to works where people went from trashing to actual discussion, listening and responding to what people actually say.

Yes, I can! The dialogue between Murray Bookchin and Dave Foreman in Defending the Earth, from 1990. I don't know about trashing exactly, but there was a rather infected debate where social ecologists criticized misanthropy in the deep ecology movement. And leaders in each movement came together for a dialogue, where they did actually listen and respond to each other. I don't know that it solved the rift between the movements, but it's definitely an interesting book.

And thanks for the interesting links. I stay off social media in my political work--I feel much better having actual meetings and doing things together in meatspace. I mean, obviously there can be negative group dynamics without the internet as well (as provided by your references in the post), but there's still an awful lot of shit that you avoid by staying off social media. I'm aware that it's a trade-off and that I miss things by not being on Facebook etc, but for me it's an easy choice to make.

ETA: Obviously I do use the non-social media aspects of the internet. Email FTW!

Thanks for the rec!

[jesse_the_k]

/rushes to put book on hold

Oh! Wait. It's already online from the Anarchist Library:

in HTML

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-and-dave-foreman-defending-the-earth-a-debate

as a PDF

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-and-dave-foreman-defending-the-earth-a-debate.pdf

or as a paperback/hardcover from the publisher:

http://blackrosebooks.net/products/view/Defending+the+Earth%3A+A+Debate+between+Murray+Bookchin+%26+Dave+Foreman/28008

Re: Thanks for the rec!

[luzula]

Oh hey, I didn't know it was on the Anarchist Library! But I'm not sorry I got a paper copy.

[magnetic_pole]

Thanks for these links! I'm a little too tired to leave a proper comment, but I'm always interested in this aspect of fandom culture and have made some bookmarks for later.

Even just seeing Joanna Russ' name here in the comments warmed my heart a little. :) J.